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  • I have proceeded to demote you. 

    It has been brought to my attention that you went outside of the wiki to - in your own words - "stage a coup", and this a total breach of Fandom protocol (as well as a fundamental misunderstanding of Fandom rules and ToS, in regards to how administrators and bureaucrats are promoted).

    I am speaking in regards to this thread: https://gegegenokitaro.fandom.com/wiki/Thread:14457

    I will also draw your attention to this thread in response: https://community.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Sannse/Why_Staff_Don%27t_Remove_Bad_Admins 

    You did not engage in any of the following:

    • You did not try to compromise (instead demanding I do everything your way without discussion)
    • You did not go to an impartial third-part (Sountenkyuu is an impartial active administrator)
    • You did not make a proposal on the wiki itself that I lose my rights
    • You did not step back and just go elsewhere

    I am going to ask you to stop this campaign of hate against me. The only real issue - to which I admited was an issue - was that of deletions . . . you never came to me about this issue, you agreed with my actions at the time, and even after I continually reached out to you, you ignored me. You can also see that I have apologised and restored all posts that can be expanded. The rest of your "points" were slander, verbal abuse, and personal attacks. This is not acceptable. 

    This is a community wiki and we all must respect one another. 

    I feel you are continuing to escalate matters and acting against Fandom advice. 

    Edit: These threads may interest you, too: 

    https://community.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Sannse/Calm_Over_Conflict https://community.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Sannse/Converting_Conflict_to_Calm

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    • No. Idol Choujin Showtime IS an impartial third party. Soutenkyuu is your friend and is not. evan1975 (talk) 13:24, May 10, 2019 (UTC)

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    • Let me debunk more of your mistruths:

      • I did try to compromise with you. I let you put unused characters on a list, even though that made no sense. I told you you could delete "Category:Gay characters" because you found it offensive, even though nobody else does.
      • I went to an impartial third party, Idol Choujin Showtime, ON FANDOM/WIKIA, not an outside site. He is a member of this Wiki, not an outsider.
      • "You did not make a proposal on the wiki itself that I lose my rights" I don't even know what that means.
      • "You did not step back and just go elsewhere" Oh, I'm supposed to just roll over and die and not fight against your mass deletions and what's right for the Wiki.
      And dude, please stop cyberstalking me. Reminder that I have not done that to you. evan1975 (talk) 13:37, May 10, 2019 (UTC)
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    • To reiterate:

      • I recruited Sountenkyuu after working with her on other projects, so our relationship is strictly professional and there is no social contact between us. The forums and websites we worked on forbade any off-topic discussion, and I know nothing about her aside from her work 
      • Soutenkyuu is an administrator solely as Fandom has no Technical role, which would allow people to edit themes and create sliders etc. without such a title
      • I have seen nothing but objectivity from Soutenkyuu, which you admitted and even said you wouldn't mind her keeping her position and admired her work . . . Sountenkyuu was the one to suggest a compromise between us, which was reasonable and fair 
      • Do you have any proof of a "friendship"? I maintain she is impartial 

      On the flipside, you clearly know Idol Choujin in some sort of personal manner, judging as you're currently working together on various other wikis and stated you knew they were active and so forth, and I very much question why now you want them back on staff. It was never an issue you brought up to me in the past few months I've had this role, and you never asked for them to be reinstated or even suggested them come back to the wiki . . . they've been inactive for many years; they do not know the current community, issues, and potentially even the new series. 

      I feel you are only asking for their promotion, and my demotion, to regain a sense of control. You would have a friend in a position of power, allowing you full run of the wiki, and - as they said they would only be prepared to do such a role temporary, until they found a suitable candidate - they would likely reinstate you and leave me demoted, in a transparent grab for power that I feel insulting you would think I wouldn't notice for what it is. 

      I'd have no issue promoting Idol Chojin to something say a Content Moderator, if they were active, and then - if they continued to be active and we established trust between us - further promoting them to administrator, but . . . I cannot promote an inactive user to which I have never worked with and have no personal experiences to vouch for their reputation. 

      I still maintain, insofar as active users, that DaHumorist (if he remains active on a regular basis) or Josh6243 would be better choices. They make edits, are polite, have never caused trouble, and have interacted with users and understand the source material. 

      However, I also do not think we need more administrators at present. 

      N.B. this is in response to a one-word reply, as I see a notification in my inbox and am not yet sure if you've edited or added further messages 

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    • My proof of friendship is "Soutenkyuu has my support in this" "Soutenkyuu agrees with me." It's clear YOU have some sort of relationship. Idol Choujin Showtime is not my friend at all. He didn't even remember me. Did you even READ what he said? He didn't say anything like "I've got your bro", he said he'd watch what we do on the Wiki and decide which of us deserves to be be bureaucrat. I'm fine with DaHumorist or Josh6243 being bureaucrat instead of you or I. But the fact you don't want any more admins shows you want "a sense of control." evan1975 (talk) 13:48, May 10, 2019 (UTC)

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    • Evan1975 wrote:
      Let me debunk more of your mistruths:
      • I did try to compromise with you. I let you put unused characters on a list, even though that made no sense. I told you you could delete "Category:Gay characters" because you found it offensive, even though nobody else does.
      • I went to an impartial third party, Idol Choujin Showtime, ON FANDOM/WIKIA, not an outside site. He is a member of this Wiki, not an outsider.
      • "You did not make a proposal on the wiki itself that I lose my rights" I don't even know what that means.
      • "You did not step back and just go elsewhere" Oh, I'm supposed to just roll over and die and not fight against your mass deletions and what's right for the Wiki.
      And dude, please stop cyberstalking me. Reminder that I have not done that to you. evan1975 (talk) 13:37, May 10, 2019 (UTC)

      We've been through this: the compromise in question is to the current issue of deletions. 

      You only offhandedly said I could delete that category much after the fact, and only as you vocally stated that you did not care about the matter. 

      He is not an outsider any more than Soutenkyuu is an outsider, except the former is inactive and the latter is highly active

      It is still a different wiki and it's unethical to act as you did; community central - on their page - would have been much more professional and acceptable 

      And - yes - Fandom does state that it's best just to leave a community if you cannot come to a resolution and things continue to distress you . . . 'walk away' is not bad advice overall in life, one tends to find, but this behaviour is bordering on harassment 

      And - again - it's not "cyber-stalking"; especially when I was not the one to search for the conversation, hence why I said it was "brought to my attention", but - as this was off-site with someone unconnected - it was not something to which I could go into detail

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    • Evan1975 wrote:
      My proof of friendship is "Soutenkyuu has my support in this" "Soutenkyuu agrees with me." It's clear YOU have some sort of relationship.

      Idol Choujin Showtime is not my friend at all. He didn't even remember me. Did you even READ what he said? He didn't say anything like "I've got your bro", he said he'd watch what we do on the Wiki and decide which of us deserves to be be bureaucrat. I'm fine with DaHumorist or Josh6243 being bureaucrat instead of you or I. But the fact you don't want any more admins shows you want "a sense of control." evan1975 (talk) 13:48, May 10, 2019 (UTC)

      Do you have a thread so that I can check this quote?

      It does not sound like something I would word in such a manner, but - generally - Soutenkyuu does have my support, much as Idol Choujin has your support, and that is solely in a professional manner, unless you're saying Idol Choujin is your friend now? Which I do still suspect.

      And - no - he didn't say that either . . . it was worded very much like he would pick from the general userbase: "At least long enough to see who's doing the better job and deserves the spot." - this is still not what happens on Fandom, because he has no authority to make such a decision, and so - unfortunately - his decision does not hold weight in the matter

      And you want to just randomly promote them to bureaucrat? No trying them out as an administrator first, or seeing how they get on? How does that make sense? How is that professional? And especially as bureaucrats have full/all rights on the wiki.

      Lastly, after this whole mess, and being such a small community, can you blame my hesitation in promoting a new administrator without serious forethought and a genuine need?

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    • "You only offhandedly said I could delete that category much after the fact, and only as you vocally stated that you did not care about the matter."

      "After the fact?" What does that even mean?

      "only as you vocally stated that you did not care about the matter" Uh...so what? What does that even mean? I didn't want you to delete that category, but I said you could do it because it offended you and I conceded to you. I didn't know any other way to contact Idol Choujin Showtime. Why don't YOU walk away if this distresses you so much? I really don't want you banned from this Wiki. Even after all the horrible things you've said about me, I still want you to stay as an editor. Wikia can demote us both to editors and put a neutral third party like Idol Choujin Showtime, DaHumorist, Josh, etc "in charge" and I'd be fine with it.

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    • Fandom made their decision. 

      You only want me kept on as an editor, as I'm one of the only few people active and making edits, and a great deal of my edits are substantial; huge amounts of story, information, references, formatting, updated images, etc. - meanwhile you do what amounts to nothing. You essentially want full control (or someone in control that you believe you hav an "in" with), only to leave me with all the work and none of the privileges for the sheer effort and time I put into this wiki. 

      If you want to contact Fandom directly again, you are well within your rights. 

      I feel we're at an impasse and I'm not sure what else to say. 

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    • KevinVolkov wrote:

      And you want to just randomly promote them to bureaucrat? No trying them out as an administrator first, or seeing how they get on? How does that make sense? How is that professional? And especially as bureaucrats have full/all rights on the wiki.

      Huh? He WAS the original bureaucrat/administrator for this Wiki. He admins several other Wikis and knows what he's doing. OK, I give you permission to cyberstalk me here on this Wiki and try to prove Idol Choujin Showtime and I were ever friends, as long as you're honest about the results. I'm sure there were probably cases where he undid my edits and things like that. evan1975 (talk) 14:09, May 10, 2019 (UTC)

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    • Evan1975 wrote:
      KevinVolkov wrote:
      And you want to just randomly promote them to bureaucrat? No trying them out as an administrator first, or seeing how they get on? How does that make sense? How is that professional? And especially as bureaucrats have full/all rights on the wiki.
      Huh? He WAS the original bureaucrat/administrator for this Wiki. He admins several other Wikis and knows what he's doing. OK, I give you permission to cyberstalk me here on this Wiki and try to prove Idol Choujin Showtime and I were ever friends, as long as you're honest about the results. I'm sure there were probably cases where he undid my edits and things like that. evan1975 (talk) 14:09, May 10, 2019 (UTC)

      Seriously, please. Just stop. 

      He was the administrator (not bureacrat, if I remember right). Was

      He's inactive and I've never worked with him to vouch for him. 

      Look . . . I'm going to ask that you not contact me again about this. If you need to contact me, just make it about new issues or edits or problems . . . I'll always be open to discussion and making necessary changes, and I'll always listen to you and your concerns. I'll always happily do my best to resolve any issues that you may raise. But this -? I think we're done. We're running in circles. It's just a continuous drain on both of us. I do not want to continue. 

      If you have problems, contact Fandom staff and have them mediate. 

      I am not discussing the staff issue with you any further. 

      Or the deletions issue (unless it's to actually compromise and talk). 

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    • I don't want control at all. I just told you that I don't care about being a bureaucrat/administrator that much. I didn't even ask for that, Wikia just gave me adminship because the original admins went inactive. I just don't want a zealous deletionist to have control of the delete button. I'm sorry, but you again seem to be projecting your own feelings onto me. evan1975 (talk) 14:14, May 10, 2019 (UTC)

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    • Okay, cool. You've said your piece. You have the last word. 

      Again, please go directly to Fandom staff if you still have any issues and require a mediator to step in between us to help facilitate discussion, but otherwise I am asking you to just leave me alone regarding a) deletions and b) promoting inactive strangers. 

      You can see I'm still making restorations. 

      I'm still compromising, even when you're making that very difficult.  

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    • OK, I thank you for restoring pages, but there are a whole lot of them to go. https://kinnikuman.fandom.com/wiki/Special:Log/delete?limit=900&type=delete&month=&year= I can't assist you with that now. Ganbatte kudasai. evan1975 (talk) 14:44, May 10, 2019 (UTC)

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    • I will not be restoring all of them, I'm afraid. 

      I told you that the compromise offered by Sountenkyuu was to restore the ones that could be expanded and leave deleted those that cannot be expanded. I gave you chance to object, but you refused to speak to me . . . I will not be restoring Unused Characters, and nor will I be restoring one-panel characters (such as those that only appeared on chapter title pages or newspaper headlines within the manga strip, etc.) It's why it's taking so long. 

      I have to keep going through the same deleted pages over and over to double and triple-check what could be expanded and what could not, then use reasonable judgement as to which should be restored. I am using the deleted section of the Admin Dashboard, which is much more useful for these circumstances, compared to the activity feed of restoratons/deletions. 

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    • Hi, hopefully this has been resolved already, but I feel I should clarify a couple of things:

      1. For starters, nothing I'm about to say is said with any kind of defensiveness, I just want to help douse the fire by clearing what I can up.
      2. I meant exactly what I said to Ethan, that'd I see who did the better job first.
      3. I also said "if everyone agrees to it", by which I really meant "if this is even allowed". So, wasn't trying to go over anyone's head, was more just offering to help if needed.
      4. I barely know Ethan. Not in a cold, antisocial way, we just haven't talked much. I admit he seems overtly confrontational in this matter, but he's told me he's not very good with confrontations and that checks out from my interactions with him.
      5. I actually do remember Ethan from back then, but I mostly know him from the Kitaro Wiki these days, where I've had no issues of racism from him that I recall. We had a guy who felt the need to express his hatred of Japan in every editing note, but nothing from Ethan.
      6. Honestly, I probably would've ultimately sided with Kevin keeping his position. The place looks a lot better than it did when I got sick of how "fansite shrine" it was run back in the day. Looks good. I think you said somewhere the episode pages still need cast info? Dude... I'm totally yer man for that if it's still needed.
      7. Since I'm here: I've started a wiki devoted solely to Japanese voice actors if anyone's interested in helping out.

      Idol Choujin Showtime, Supreme Commander (Admin) (talk) 16:38, May 10, 2019 (UTC)

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    • Thank you for the reply. 

      Also, an immense thank you for being so polite and calm. I very much appreciate it, and it makes discussion so much easier, too. I'll reply on your wall in a second, just as much of what I want to say amounts to a 'welcome back' and an update on the wiki itself; I'm so thrilled you like the new look of the wiki, though, as that was a main aim on becoming bureaucrat :) 

      I'll message you in just a moment, but thank you again for being so civil :) 

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    • A FANDOM user
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